conchshell
07-29 01:06 PM
I assume that all the EB2 India who have decided to go for CP route will get their immigrant visas stamped in India. I noticed that New Delhi and Mumbai consulates posts a list of candidates due for immigrant visa interview at their website by the middle of the month. May be this list can give us an idea as to how many EB2 India will get their GC through consular posts:
This is the link for New Delhi consulate: http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/visa_interview_dates.html
This is the link for Mumbai Consulate : http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/interview_appt_schedule.html
At the links mentioned above, you will find PDF documents telling us how many Employment based (EB2) people are scheduled for an interview during August 2008.
If we can search and locate similar links for Chennai, and Kolkata consulate, probably by mid August we would be in a position to find out how many EB2 India are going to get their GC's in August 2008 through CP route. This will also tell us how many visas USCIS has got to process/waste.
Gurus ... am I making any mistake here?
This is the link for New Delhi consulate: http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/visa_interview_dates.html
This is the link for Mumbai Consulate : http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/interview_appt_schedule.html
At the links mentioned above, you will find PDF documents telling us how many Employment based (EB2) people are scheduled for an interview during August 2008.
If we can search and locate similar links for Chennai, and Kolkata consulate, probably by mid August we would be in a position to find out how many EB2 India are going to get their GC's in August 2008 through CP route. This will also tell us how many visas USCIS has got to process/waste.
Gurus ... am I making any mistake here?
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kumjay
06-27 01:04 PM
I would love to ask Lou Dobbs the same question!!
Three facts, followed by one interpretation.
First: several members (incl self) have checked with their own lawyers and these lawyers tend to agree with the common interpretation of validity for entire month. And at least some of these are lawyers with many years of practice.
Second: Fragomen, the largest immigration law firm, on its website mentions the mid-month possibility; so while there is no government source, the whole topic cannot be dismissed as an unfounded rumor.
Third: Macaca keeps cutting and pasting from the ombudsman's report in many different colors.
My interpretation:
The mid-month concept seems to be a matter of opinion. Multicolor posts notwithstanding, there's nothing official on this matter so far. (I emailed the state department seeking an answer; not surprisingly, I haven't heard back. If anyone else can get something from the horse's mouth, then post it here. If you can get stuff only from the other end of the horse, then maybe there's isn't much pointing in driving a general panic.)
Three facts, followed by one interpretation.
First: several members (incl self) have checked with their own lawyers and these lawyers tend to agree with the common interpretation of validity for entire month. And at least some of these are lawyers with many years of practice.
Second: Fragomen, the largest immigration law firm, on its website mentions the mid-month possibility; so while there is no government source, the whole topic cannot be dismissed as an unfounded rumor.
Third: Macaca keeps cutting and pasting from the ombudsman's report in many different colors.
My interpretation:
The mid-month concept seems to be a matter of opinion. Multicolor posts notwithstanding, there's nothing official on this matter so far. (I emailed the state department seeking an answer; not surprisingly, I haven't heard back. If anyone else can get something from the horse's mouth, then post it here. If you can get stuff only from the other end of the horse, then maybe there's isn't much pointing in driving a general panic.)
sunny1000
06-28 06:21 PM
Still, just because DOS told USCIS "Visas are exhausted" doesnt mean they should stop ACCEPTING new petitions. They can stop APPROVING new ones, but why stop ACCEPTING new petitions. Visa bulletins guide the filing as well as approval of petitions. If visa bulletins is current, then they can both accept and approve petitions.
They can definitely accept I-140. But, I485 acceptance will stop as soon as DOS tells USCIS that the visas are exausted..... isn't that is one of the provisions that we are fighting for...:D :D :D :D
They can definitely accept I-140. But, I485 acceptance will stop as soon as DOS tells USCIS that the visas are exausted..... isn't that is one of the provisions that we are fighting for...:D :D :D :D
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vin13
09-15 12:52 PM
For FY2010 there are very less GC applications filed by ROW & EB1 due to bad economy. If USCIS waits till last quarter then they wont have much visa usage during previous quarters. So it makes sense for USCIS to allocate spill over numbers on a per quarter basis. We never know how it works
I agree that it makes sense for USCIS to allocate spill over numbers on a quarterly basis.
But i doubt if they are allocating spillover quarterly. If they did, then we should have seen steady movements and not a rapid movement of dates in the last quarter.
We should certainly get a clarrification from USCIS about this. This could be a potential administrative change without congress intervention.
I agree that it makes sense for USCIS to allocate spill over numbers on a quarterly basis.
But i doubt if they are allocating spillover quarterly. If they did, then we should have seen steady movements and not a rapid movement of dates in the last quarter.
We should certainly get a clarrification from USCIS about this. This could be a potential administrative change without congress intervention.
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cal97
07-10 12:47 PM
Wish you all the best. I may follow you too. Have time till Oct 08 to mull on this on-going GC crap.
belmontboy
08-17 05:07 PM
True greatness is shown by humility, not pride.
Al Gore, Kalam, etc are great personalities.
SRK nah!!
Thousands of South Asians have gone through same treatment.
Growup SRK, don't be such a baby :D.
I have never watched his movies, and i got one more reason not to watch "My name is Khan".
Al Gore, Kalam, etc are great personalities.
SRK nah!!
Thousands of South Asians have gone through same treatment.
Growup SRK, don't be such a baby :D.
I have never watched his movies, and i got one more reason not to watch "My name is Khan".
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snathan
01-16 01:36 PM
And who is asking your advice ? This is usa and I have a right to express my views.If you don't like it please ignore my post.Who has forced you to read my post ? Who is stopping to go back to India ?
You are not expressing your views...You are just spewing your venom and hatred. You are an ideal fit for loser's guild. I am not the one talking all BS about my employer and claiming gladly will back to India. Its YOU... if you dont remember what you are talking..I pity you. Did anyone force you to work for your employer? It was your choice and why you whine now.
I dont want to waste my time with your garbage. Have fun.
You are not expressing your views...You are just spewing your venom and hatred. You are an ideal fit for loser's guild. I am not the one talking all BS about my employer and claiming gladly will back to India. Its YOU... if you dont remember what you are talking..I pity you. Did anyone force you to work for your employer? It was your choice and why you whine now.
I dont want to waste my time with your garbage. Have fun.
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justin150377
07-27 06:15 PM
I am in my sixth year on an H1-B expiring Sept 13, 2008 also noted on I-94. My attorney will be applying for an H1 extension based on an approved I-140 and pending I-485. They are also applying for EAD and AP renewal (expiring Oct 2nd, 2008). I am currently in EB3 Worldwide with a PD of Oct 2, 2006. I will need to travel outside the country on Oct 2nd. My H1-B will be pending before but not approved by Sept 13th. Can I still re-enter on a pending H1 extension or will I have to switch to EAD/AP assuming those are approved before my Oct 2nd travel date? Thank you for your time.
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same_old_guy
06-26 01:08 PM
EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM :
PLEASE DO NOT SPREAD RUMORS ! WE ARE ALREADY STRESSED AS IT IS. WE DONT NEED ONE MORE RUMOR LIKE THIS RIGHT NOW.
IF YOU ARE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF LOGIC TO SUPPORT IT, PLEASE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, FOR GOD'S SAKE !
IF YOU ARE FEELING INSURED, HELPLESS AND WITH NO CONFIDENCE - JUST REMEMBER, ALMOST EVERYONE IS FEELING THE SAME. JUST DONT HIT THE PANIC BUTTON BASED ON NOTHING, PLEASE !
JUST FOLLOW UP WITH YOUR LAWYER AND MAKE ALL THE DOCUMENTS READY TO FILE AS SOON AS YOU CAN. THAT'S THE BEST YOU CAN DO ! IF SOMETHING HAPPENS LET IT HAPPEN. NO NEED TO LIVE IT THRU TWICE, ONCE NOW AND ONCE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.
PEACE.:mad:
PLEASE DO NOT SPREAD RUMORS ! WE ARE ALREADY STRESSED AS IT IS. WE DONT NEED ONE MORE RUMOR LIKE THIS RIGHT NOW.
IF YOU ARE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF LOGIC TO SUPPORT IT, PLEASE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, FOR GOD'S SAKE !
IF YOU ARE FEELING INSURED, HELPLESS AND WITH NO CONFIDENCE - JUST REMEMBER, ALMOST EVERYONE IS FEELING THE SAME. JUST DONT HIT THE PANIC BUTTON BASED ON NOTHING, PLEASE !
JUST FOLLOW UP WITH YOUR LAWYER AND MAKE ALL THE DOCUMENTS READY TO FILE AS SOON AS YOU CAN. THAT'S THE BEST YOU CAN DO ! IF SOMETHING HAPPENS LET IT HAPPEN. NO NEED TO LIVE IT THRU TWICE, ONCE NOW AND ONCE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.
PEACE.:mad:
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waitingmygc
01-13 10:56 PM
Is this Memorandom final?
If yes, then the options for them whose employer is consulting company and the employer is not direct vendor to the client are as follows:
1. If status is H1B, then join direct client of the employer or switch employer having projects with direct clients.
2. If maintaing H1B status and also have EAD, then switch to EAD ASAP because this Memorandom is for H1B (renewal/extension or Change).
If yes, then the options for them whose employer is consulting company and the employer is not direct vendor to the client are as follows:
1. If status is H1B, then join direct client of the employer or switch employer having projects with direct clients.
2. If maintaing H1B status and also have EAD, then switch to EAD ASAP because this Memorandom is for H1B (renewal/extension or Change).
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FinalGC
07-22 02:21 PM
I have been following this thread for last couple of days and I feel I need to make few points. I remember when this amway/qucikstar thing started several of my close friends got entangled and tried to involve me. However, every time I bailed myself out by clearly mentioning to them "Right now, making lot of money is not in my top priorities. I want to focus on my carrier." Fortunately, I was able to fend off the proposals and clearly make my point.
In this thread, several of you are mentioning to ridicule, diminish, embarrass, and even socially out casting an amway/quickstar member. I feel its going a little bit too far. If you dont like to be in the amway/quickstar business stay clear of it, nobody will be able to force you in it. Setting up anti-amway websites, sharing names of the "bugging" amway members, distributing their phone numbers, and destroying their social reputation is harming the person personally, not the amway/quickstar business. We all know by now the amway/quickstar is a scam, majority of its signed members end up losing valuable time and money. How do you feel if some of your mentioned action emotionally push a distressed person off the cliff. Think about it a bit !!!
Dear Friend:
The frustration that all these people state is because of the bitter experience most of them had. The whole business model of Amway is created to con people to get into business. When you understand that part.....every person who has some contact with Amway will have some disgust from their past.
Btw....if you see most of these guys arguing do not have much to do.(including me.:-) ).......this is one masala discussion and everybody is jumping in and passing their time....Nobody is intentionally ridiculing them...all people are trying to say is BEWARE!!! Njoy this discussion and move on buddy...:-)
In this thread, several of you are mentioning to ridicule, diminish, embarrass, and even socially out casting an amway/quickstar member. I feel its going a little bit too far. If you dont like to be in the amway/quickstar business stay clear of it, nobody will be able to force you in it. Setting up anti-amway websites, sharing names of the "bugging" amway members, distributing their phone numbers, and destroying their social reputation is harming the person personally, not the amway/quickstar business. We all know by now the amway/quickstar is a scam, majority of its signed members end up losing valuable time and money. How do you feel if some of your mentioned action emotionally push a distressed person off the cliff. Think about it a bit !!!
Dear Friend:
The frustration that all these people state is because of the bitter experience most of them had. The whole business model of Amway is created to con people to get into business. When you understand that part.....every person who has some contact with Amway will have some disgust from their past.
Btw....if you see most of these guys arguing do not have much to do.(including me.:-) ).......this is one masala discussion and everybody is jumping in and passing their time....Nobody is intentionally ridiculing them...all people are trying to say is BEWARE!!! Njoy this discussion and move on buddy...:-)
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hebbar77
05-29 07:18 PM
nothing came easy for immigrants here including europeans immigrants in early 1500's! They silenced the people to make their way!, we are standing in line!
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hiralal
06-15 09:36 PM
Just hang on to your jobs or find a job if you loose one. You will get your GC. GC shouldn't stop you from pursuing your interests buying house or starting a business, there are always ways to do it.
I am guessing that your intention is good but the advice is BAD (to put it mildly).
Find a new job if you are on H1 / or even EAD -- first try the same and then let us know.
regarding buying house - if you are welder from Korea - sure go ahead even if you PD is 2006. if from China / India -- just forget it for the time being ... it will add too much stress in your life ..better have the money in liquid form. it is good to be optimistic but you need to be a realist first ..as others have said, if they cannot print a plastic green card for you then it is foolish for you to invest your hard earned money in real estate
I am guessing that your intention is good but the advice is BAD (to put it mildly).
Find a new job if you are on H1 / or even EAD -- first try the same and then let us know.
regarding buying house - if you are welder from Korea - sure go ahead even if you PD is 2006. if from China / India -- just forget it for the time being ... it will add too much stress in your life ..better have the money in liquid form. it is good to be optimistic but you need to be a realist first ..as others have said, if they cannot print a plastic green card for you then it is foolish for you to invest your hard earned money in real estate
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gimmeacard
07-28 04:08 PM
#1 Landed in Texas in late 90's at a friends place. Friend took me to get SS# next day, dropped me at SS office during his lunch time and came in the evening at SS office to pick me up. While waiting outside, in a span of 20 minutes, had two people (one desi and another a colored person) approach me trying to befriend me...obviously I fall for it, second day and I meet such a nice person , offering me help if I needed. etc. Asked me for my cell or home #, I did not have any (was only going to stay at friends for few days and then going to Phoenix), so, i managed to get their business cards and I promised to call them.
In the evening, friend picked me up, told him what happened, he laughed and said "they already got you....unbelievable..hit in just one day of landing... I asked him to explain what was going on, he said he explained me everything. He mentioned that his brother-in-law will be at his home in the evening for dinner (an IBO), and asked me to tell him that I was not interested as I wanted to focus on career first. We go inside, he introduced to his BIL, BIL immediately asked me when I came and what I do, and that he has an excellent business offer for me, which he would discuss with me after dinner. My friend blinked at me, I told him that I had a business proposal for him as well. He was surprised and asked me what it was. I told him that when I was in India, I was a IBO and I wanted him to be an IBO, after listening to what I had to say.
He and my friend were astonished, my friend and his wife were laughing. BIL said he was going to talk about the same thing to me, I said, I am tired and if he already is a IBO, I will not talk about it at all, as I would rather sleep (jet lag). Got rid of him easily...
Incident #2: After moving to Phoenix in 8 days, landed at my Desi consultant's, got a 2 Bedroom townhome shared by total of4 people. One of them was active in AMWAY...asked me if I wanted to go to a business meeting followed by Tea/snacks. I told him I could come only if he stops by grocery store first as I wanted to buy stuff. I did not have car so needed his help for groceries etc. I went with him and few of other FOBs that he had managed to "capture" (New Bakras for him). Went to his friends house who was a new IBO and hosting tea party/(Bakra kato seminar) first time, so he had lot of food/snacks etc. I enjoyed the snack, slept in the mkt. speech. ate good food. Told him that I was already an IBO when the form signing ceremony started, friend was mad why I did not tell him, I told him that I should be mad at him for wasting my time and not telling me where and what this meeting was about. Had a fun at his expense :-)
in couple of weeks moved to Mid North East, where I did not face any AMWAY/QUI guy/s.
Good HUmor for a wednesday..
BTW, i lost a good old friend right in first week of landing, we worked @ same company in India(birlasoft), were happy to reach Uncle Sam, (he came before me)- asked me to join a meeting, will arrange pickup etc. somehow i missed the ride- LUCKY ME
next day again it started out - he never said what it was about who is involved etc.
i said no i dont think i would like to be involved, i was still calculating $1 = 45 Rupees, MCDONALD # 3 combo is Rs 300 oh lala, too expensive( YEAR 2000)
So my kanjusi paid off, see sometimes being lazy helps
In the evening, friend picked me up, told him what happened, he laughed and said "they already got you....unbelievable..hit in just one day of landing... I asked him to explain what was going on, he said he explained me everything. He mentioned that his brother-in-law will be at his home in the evening for dinner (an IBO), and asked me to tell him that I was not interested as I wanted to focus on career first. We go inside, he introduced to his BIL, BIL immediately asked me when I came and what I do, and that he has an excellent business offer for me, which he would discuss with me after dinner. My friend blinked at me, I told him that I had a business proposal for him as well. He was surprised and asked me what it was. I told him that when I was in India, I was a IBO and I wanted him to be an IBO, after listening to what I had to say.
He and my friend were astonished, my friend and his wife were laughing. BIL said he was going to talk about the same thing to me, I said, I am tired and if he already is a IBO, I will not talk about it at all, as I would rather sleep (jet lag). Got rid of him easily...
Incident #2: After moving to Phoenix in 8 days, landed at my Desi consultant's, got a 2 Bedroom townhome shared by total of4 people. One of them was active in AMWAY...asked me if I wanted to go to a business meeting followed by Tea/snacks. I told him I could come only if he stops by grocery store first as I wanted to buy stuff. I did not have car so needed his help for groceries etc. I went with him and few of other FOBs that he had managed to "capture" (New Bakras for him). Went to his friends house who was a new IBO and hosting tea party/(Bakra kato seminar) first time, so he had lot of food/snacks etc. I enjoyed the snack, slept in the mkt. speech. ate good food. Told him that I was already an IBO when the form signing ceremony started, friend was mad why I did not tell him, I told him that I should be mad at him for wasting my time and not telling me where and what this meeting was about. Had a fun at his expense :-)
in couple of weeks moved to Mid North East, where I did not face any AMWAY/QUI guy/s.
Good HUmor for a wednesday..
BTW, i lost a good old friend right in first week of landing, we worked @ same company in India(birlasoft), were happy to reach Uncle Sam, (he came before me)- asked me to join a meeting, will arrange pickup etc. somehow i missed the ride- LUCKY ME
next day again it started out - he never said what it was about who is involved etc.
i said no i dont think i would like to be involved, i was still calculating $1 = 45 Rupees, MCDONALD # 3 combo is Rs 300 oh lala, too expensive( YEAR 2000)
So my kanjusi paid off, see sometimes being lazy helps
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rajesh_kamisetty
07-10 02:25 PM
Changed my mind. Updated my message. I appreciate your defense.
please dont speak on behalf of everyone....speak for urself....and do us a favor...did all those folks from AP came to you and suggested that they can only breathe,live and die in usa....congratulations...you just became eligible to join the elite club of stereotypes with your narrow minded mentality........thankx...
please dont speak on behalf of everyone....speak for urself....and do us a favor...did all those folks from AP came to you and suggested that they can only breathe,live and die in usa....congratulations...you just became eligible to join the elite club of stereotypes with your narrow minded mentality........thankx...
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dan19
02-12 06:58 PM
After reading through the forums, I understand the EB3-World needs to become current for any others to move forward.
But now I notice that EB3-World itself has stopped moving after jumping for some months. Any reasons? (The 245i is already cleared and now it is in Aug 02)
Is there any other 245is preventing it????
But now I notice that EB3-World itself has stopped moving after jumping for some months. Any reasons? (The 245i is already cleared and now it is in Aug 02)
Is there any other 245is preventing it????
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Macaca
01-13 08:19 PM
people who work through consulting companies at client sites where the consulting company (employer/petitioner) only runs the employees payroll and has no control over an employee's day-to-day job responsibilities, are now deemed to be lacking an employer-employee relationship and hence may no longer get H1s (new or extensions).
This is done by the executive branch.
Matloff and Hira (via dustbin and grassley as part of curry bill) have been trying to do this legislatively.
Why are they still trying legislatively (as part of CIR 2010) if it can be done by USCIS?
Why wait so long? Is it Obama's gift? to curry?
This is done by the executive branch.
Matloff and Hira (via dustbin and grassley as part of curry bill) have been trying to do this legislatively.
Why are they still trying legislatively (as part of CIR 2010) if it can be done by USCIS?
Why wait so long? Is it Obama's gift? to curry?
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Macaca
01-17 06:32 PM
This kind of attitude will not help to acheive your goal.
Using abusive words will do more harm than any benefit.
This is open source (http://app.businessweek.com/UserComments/combo_review?action=getComment&productId=45768&reviewId=503132#503132). And this is their ghetto.
Will post more urls here if I get time.
Using abusive words will do more harm than any benefit.
This is open source (http://app.businessweek.com/UserComments/combo_review?action=getComment&productId=45768&reviewId=503132#503132). And this is their ghetto.
Will post more urls here if I get time.
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snathan
08-16 12:29 AM
US knows that Pakistan is the mother of Terrorism, doesn't look like with all the aid flowing in, that it is being reduced to rubble. Terrorism is a deeper debate, and it borders on uneven economics, social structures, global imbalance to name a few. We have quite a few terrorists in India too, just look up Sikh riots of 1984 and Gujrat riots of 2002, the culprits walk scott free. You talk about Israel, how safe is Israel? Would you settle in Israel given a chance? The same is with the US, in the pretext of 9/11 the residual racism is now emerging in these situations.
Whether we like it or not, Kasab will be hung to death. He is definitely a criminal, and it shines on our judicial system and independent media (both are screwed in their own ways) that we can tell that a terrorist hasn't been reduced to a weakling to not demand the food of his choice.
If you are soft state they will after you...How come Israel surviving with all hostile neighbour....Do you know the seven day war. Do we have the guts to do that with any country who are launching terrorist into our land.?
Yes...US is not attacking Pak...because Pak is living at US mercy.
Whether we like it or not, Kasab will be hung to death. He is definitely a criminal, and it shines on our judicial system and independent media (both are screwed in their own ways) that we can tell that a terrorist hasn't been reduced to a weakling to not demand the food of his choice.
If you are soft state they will after you...How come Israel surviving with all hostile neighbour....Do you know the seven day war. Do we have the guts to do that with any country who are launching terrorist into our land.?
Yes...US is not attacking Pak...because Pak is living at US mercy.
sumagiri
07-23 08:04 PM
Yes i am very much implying that ..EB2 PD was 02 in Dec, 01 in Jan, Unavailable in Feb-March 08. So there where very few visas given to EB2 india in first 8 months. Same with China went back to 03 in Dec and stayed there for most of the 8 months period.
From Dec 08 Visa Bulletin
Sachug22,
It may be simply because EB2 numbers are used up fast for the quarter. It is right now a blind spot and an estimate of what happened depends on perspective.
Any how, you brought up a new perspective so gave you a green.
From Dec 08 Visa Bulletin
Sachug22,
It may be simply because EB2 numbers are used up fast for the quarter. It is right now a blind spot and an estimate of what happened depends on perspective.
Any how, you brought up a new perspective so gave you a green.
JazzByTheBay
12-13 09:09 PM
Probably the best argument I've read all day, and your take on it makes a lot more sense - great for a sanity check! :)
cheers!
jazz
As you use the phrase Check Mate....
Chess is all about thinking strategically several moves ahead.
Given the current political climate on immigration I think that we will be in a check mate position (on the loosing end) if we pursue that road.
The anti's would be all over us as soon as we filed in federal district court probably even before a hearing, and definitely after a hearing. If we lost in lower courts the Supreme Court would probably refuse to hear the appeal, in the mean time we'd have just stirred up the anti's hornets nest against us, just as much if not worse than against the illegals.
Asking Congress to make small changes in the existing laws annoys the anti's. Telling them or forcing them to wholesale rewrite their laws would make us public enemy #1. We would be lucky to have more than a handful of law makers willing to stand up for us. It would kill off all lobbying ability.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
I would rather negotiate than fight, I would rather lobby than court challenge.
So yes, check mate, if we follow this route.
Alternatively, a British phase: Royally screwed!
cheers!
jazz
As you use the phrase Check Mate....
Chess is all about thinking strategically several moves ahead.
Given the current political climate on immigration I think that we will be in a check mate position (on the loosing end) if we pursue that road.
The anti's would be all over us as soon as we filed in federal district court probably even before a hearing, and definitely after a hearing. If we lost in lower courts the Supreme Court would probably refuse to hear the appeal, in the mean time we'd have just stirred up the anti's hornets nest against us, just as much if not worse than against the illegals.
Asking Congress to make small changes in the existing laws annoys the anti's. Telling them or forcing them to wholesale rewrite their laws would make us public enemy #1. We would be lucky to have more than a handful of law makers willing to stand up for us. It would kill off all lobbying ability.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
I would rather negotiate than fight, I would rather lobby than court challenge.
So yes, check mate, if we follow this route.
Alternatively, a British phase: Royally screwed!
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